We had a lighter episode this week, as the student council issues essentially worked themselves out now that the emotional issues tying all these characters down were cleared up. It was great to see the whole team working together again, with the scenes from the halfway point onward all demonstrating the stuff that was initially so appealing about this show. Hikki and Yukino have a great conversational dynamic, and Iroha’s become a pretty natural extension of the whole group. The characters are able to honestly express that they care about each other now, meaning it feels a lot less stifling just watching them interact. It’s just rewarding to spend time with these characters now.
Anyway. Here’s my more thorough thoughts on the key scenes, and you can find my notes below!
“If you’re going to feel guilty, you shouldn’t have rejected her.” “It doesn’t work that way.” A microcosm of what Hikki’s been avoiding learning all this season – pain comes with the territory, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be honest
“You’re amazing, the way you change everyone around you.” Hayama sees a lot in Hikki
“I expected more indifference from you.”
“I’m starting to want the real thing too.” UH OH IROHAS
“I can’t forget what you said. That’s why I tried to take a step forward today.”
Framing it as part of the strategy, then breaking down
“You better take responsibility” damnit Iroha
“I wanted to cover up my own mistakes. To do that, I used tricks and words.”
“If you want to play pretend, could you do it elsewhere?” Yeah, Yukino’s definitely the one for this job
“You use vague words you just learned and avoid moving forward. You’ll never learn or gain anything that way. You’re just a pretender.” Yukino lays down the law on these meetings and herself
“Could you refrain from wasting any more of our time?”
And then Yui comes in with the positive pickup, offering a suggestion and then pointing it directly at the other group to agree. This scene gets to show off the whole cast at their best, using their natural talents
Annoying buzzword dude blowing his hair up is too great
“Why’d you two have to say that stuff?” “I don’t believe anything I said was mistaken.” Yukino so Yukino
Their banter is back to usual. It’s great to see
“You’ve changed, Hikigaya. I used to think you were totally boring. …but if someone looks boring, it might really be the looker’s fault.” Hikki’s old schoolmate has changed too. People do change, and people are complicated
And Hikki invites Rumi to be in their play. Not solving an immediate problem, but opening a door
Iroha’s really a president now
Aw shit, this insert song’s getting me. All of these characters in their element, working together. They really are good kids
Yukino and Yui got Hikki a cup for christmas
“Thanks. You really saved me.” Letting himself be saved by someone else. Like Yukino’s line last episode – it’s not about romance, it’s about trust
“Hachiman isn’t an insult!” WELP
Hikki advising Yukino to spend the end of the year with her family
Haruno and Hayato are out together. Apparently their parents are friends, so that’s why they know each other so well
Haruno once again just messing with Yukino, calling her out while her friends are together. Haruno’s just an asshole – her actions don’t have to follow an underlying compassionate pattern, she just likes to stir things up
Yukino’s mom shows up, and it’s awkward as hell
I’ll get the two nitpicks out of the way to absolve everyone else the need to point them out: The confession Hachiman stopped was episodes 1-2, we’ve already been with Iroha since episode 3. “the denouement to two seasons worth of drama and character growth,” should be “seasons‘”
Ok, with that out of the way, a more substantive difference of opinion:
Also reflected in your line above. Part of it might be related to translation and what I heard last week regarding the “echo” you mentioned, and the double-meaning of “help” versus “save”, but it feels meaningful here because Hachiman is thanking his friends for helping him with Iroha, and the lines that immediately follow from Yukino more or less say, “No, we didn’t save you yet, but we will.”
I too read this as mostly aimed at herself, with the end of episode 8 and somewhat last episode. It seems from replies on reddit/my blog that most people see this as her talking to Hikki. My response was that since these characters are so similar, “talking to one another” and “Talking to herself” isn’t all that different, but the characters and previous lines made me see her as talking mostly to herself as well. It’s interesting to note what each side focused on, in a magic picture sort of way.
And finally, “You stupid scum-niichan! You dimwit! You Hachiman!” from Crunchyroll is… fine, and I probably wouldn’t have noticed how stilted it is without having watched Commie’s first, “You dumbass! Nitwit! Hachiman!” Those constant “You”s in there just don’t fit the flow of actual conversation of this sort.
Well, that’s possibly because my English that suffers, but what I and probably System-guy said in your blog is essentially the same. They not really talking to each other, it’s not a conversation, but they’re kind of trying to back each other up, or, in a more blunted way, just trying to react on what the other one said by adding into their own words some additional layers, that is, “answering”. And “a talk” here is provided by the other one’s capability to actually see through it.
Or something like that.
But anyway, the point here is that both of them are seeking for the right words to debunk those meetings’ notion inside themselves, especially the past ones. And for me, this reading is more suitable to be in the actual notes, not the comments section.
Oh yeah, I read this as following what Yukino said in the meeting with Jazz Hands. She’s trying to get Yukino to move forward, to force her to speak clearly. She’s probably not getting her together with her mother to see the drama, but to help resolve this somehow. I still wonder if Haruno is the one who made a request of Sensei to help Yukino to begin with, before the show started.
This is likely true, but it doesn’t make me think much better of Haruno. She takes very callous and trolling roads towards her destination. She’s older than them, but she manipulates people in the same juvenile, roundabout ways the kids do, and she seems to take pleasure in it.
Oh, she’s definitely an asshole also messing up with people for fun. Hikki is messing with people because he just doesn’t see any better way to get things done.
Haruno messes with people while trying to help them even if she knows better ways because this way is enjoyable to her.
I’m just not sold she’s doing it just to stir things up.
I think Haruno messes with people to test how they will behave. She is looking for someone who could see her as she sees herself.
Hayama: “She wouldnt mess with people she had no interest in. Instead she would just ignore them. She either smothers the ones she likes, or destroys the ones she hates.”
This indicates:
– intention: she messes with (certain) people on purpose
– attention seeking: her behavior is detrimental to her own relationships. Her ‘messing’ is pathological.
– fear: to lose and be forgotten, she hates opposition
In the LN Hikki makes multiple observations that she may have no friends.
Her behaviour indeed is malicious. During the Sagami fiasco, when Yukino and Hikki were busy, she came to ‘help’ in the council room, but she actually purposefully messed up the formulars for Yukino to have to fix them after her!
Yukino took it more or less silently and nobody ever realized. She was showing her true nature to the single person in the whole room.
I think she is torn from the inside and hopelessly reaching out. She is playing a game where the other person is supposed to understand what she is screaming about, without uttering a word. Its a game she knows she can never win, and it already broke her long time ago.
Hayama-likes are invisible to Haruno-Eye, because they can only scratch her shell. Hikkigayas are her thing, but there is only one, and he has a lot of doves flocking around as it is, particularly Yukino-chan, deserving him much more than herself.
Entrapped by her nightmares and driven by solitude, to the despair itself, only the malice can escape her heart now. That is how i see her.
I guess Hayato in the end is not the perfect riaju that Hikki thought during season 1; getting in cahoots with Haruno (those two surely love to make trouble), that’s low… Well, he said it himself.
What left me wondering is Yukino seems to think that she isn’t over yet helping hikki? is there something else in the agenda? Is she trying to complete the task Sensei gave her back in the very first episode?
Also, Hachiman, best insult ever.
Damn, now I am feeling down, this episode was good and kept the happy note from last episode, it’s sad to think we’re only weeks away from the end of the trip.
stop posting hachiman
“Haruno’s just an asshole.” Some people just want to watch the world burn…
Given just how good this season of Oregairu has been, do you think the series will move up in your Top 30 rankings?
Any thoughts about the monologues of the four characters after the ED song?
They are part of the Memorandums from LN. Short parts from the perspective of unknown characters, theorized to be Hayama and Haruno. Recommend reading them, particularly the third (probably Haruno’s).
One thing not mentioned here which is key for the club room tea time scene.
Hikki thanks Yukino and Yui for accepting the job to help out with the Irohas / Christmas event issues.
Yukino says the job isn’t done yet and says she has accepted Hikki’s “job”
(She is referring to two episodes ago when Hikki says he wants something genuine)
Yui the. Says she kind of figured it out.
Hikki remains clueless in terms of what the other two are referring to.