Tag Archives: Sexism

Neptunia – Episode 1

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Management: Yeah, you read that title right. I basically wrote this piece on a drunken bet, so… well, I mean, I go into caveats at the beginning of the rant, but I really should double-clarify. This is essentially a roast, and as such, it basically breaks every single rule of thoughtful, respectful criticism I’ve ever articulated. If you want sensitivity, look elsewhere today – this gets angry pretty quick, and gets mean soon after that. Now that I’m sober and coherent, I’d just like to say if you watch Neptunia, I don’t actually hate you as a person – I really do think it’s extremely sexist and I really do think that rewarding stuff like this with financial success means we get more empty, pandering fluff, but that doesn’t diminish your right to watch what you want in the privacy of your own home, regardless of what drunken-me may try to convince you of in a moment. Your watching this show doesn’t hurt anybody, especially if you torrent it and fail to reward its’ creators. And… er, I guess I just preemptively apologize. This post is not a thoughtful critique meant to start a compelling discussion – it’s just pure, raging id. Alright, Dr. Jekyll signing off.

Hopefully anyone who’s reading this knows my schtick. I critique stuff, I talk about storytelling, I get passionate about things I find compelling and get pissy about things I find offensive. Anyway. It was recently brought to my attention that maybe a couple people might find me writing up something as inane as Neptunia amusing, and it just so happens that right now I am quite drunk (I’m on vacation leave me alone) and not terribly interested in watching anything worth paying attention to. So here we are. Caveats!

  1. I really am drunk. Not even “comedy-writeup Free! semi-drunk but still focused and determined to create comic narratives” drunk – I am actually inebriated. That means I’m probably going to be more loose with the words and the judgments than the level I generally try to maintain
  2. This is fucking Neptunia. I’m only watching it because people want me to destroy it. And destroy it I shall – my only knowledge of this show is that it’s based on a videogame that postulates “what if the game consoles we depressingly identify with were personified as moe fuck-things?” and that every image I’ve seen of it involved some astonishingly brazen rape fantasies
  3. I have yet to write (and honestly may never write, since I don’t know what audience would actually appreciate this) my essay chronicling the course of the moe aesthetic from Rei to K-On to OreImo and Sakurasou. Long story short: I think there’s an element of moe that does indeed fall within a protective, parental instinct, and I think there’s another element that wants to fuck the shit out of helpless vegetable-women. Guess which side I think this show will fall on

I THINK THAT COVERS IT. Welcome to the show, motherfuckers. It’s Neptunia

Episode 1

0:00 – My head is so deeply sunken into my hand right now. Can’t believe I’m watching this

0:16 – The city is called Gamindustri. That resembles a joke

0:27 – It really has been quite some time since I’ve watched any serious bullshit. The imaginary anime industry bubble I have created for myself (composed of the the 2-3 good shows and 3-4 semi-respectable ones each season) is indeed a pleasant fantasy, but I suppose it is only proper that I occassionally visit… this

1:13 – Their entire fucking population is sexy anime girls?!? Seriously people, this is so goddamn stupid. There is so much porn. WHY are you spending time listening to this hackneyed, embarrassing exposition when you could just be watching the actual anime sex you’re clearly here for? So many people worked so many hours to create this drivel. THERE ARE THEMATICALLY UNENRICHED CHILDREN IN AFRICA

1:27 – “Today, we rise. This dress is no match for our strength!”

Gawd I can’t believe this shit. How far in are we? Minute and a half. Great. Making good time.

Alright, no, this is good. This is a test. You know that “I don’t agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” shit? This is like that, except for me and my policy of “everyone gets to like what they like and that’s fine.” Because seriously, I couldn’t imagine more banal, tasteless, pandering shit than NO! I CAN DO THIS. I CAN RESPECT PEOPLE’S RIGHT TO ENJOY NEPTUNIA.

Okay. I’m cool. Moving on. How far in are we? Fuck.

1:33 – Fascinating. Seriously, there really is a lot of actual porn out there. Not lying

1:52 – HOW can shit like this even PRETEND to have a plot? WHYYY

2:20 – Right, because no amount of tits will make otaku accept an actual woman as a protagonist. Nope, better switch back to our genki moe thing

2:36 – Wait, now each of the leaders transforms back into whichever school of dere fetish they represent? Is this secretly a parody? No, right, it’s just honest

2:51 – Porn has better writing than this. They have given you a genki, tsundere, kuudere, and ojou/tits, and now they are going to have them walk in circles and dance for you. I fail to see how adding a sad, stunted narrative to this actually improves the gratification

Alright, at this point I should probably just add a fourth rule, since this shit is clearly going to demand it

4. Attacking Neptunia pretty necessarily involves attacking the entire mindset which would consider Neptunia a thing that should exist in any universe ever. Every moment I am watching this show, I am imagining all of the dollars and man-hours that were spent making this a real thing that exists as opposed to something which has even the slightest ounce of legitimate value to any living creature. I am begrudging it those dollars and hours. I am taking it out on anything in the vicinity

2:58 – Deeply moving ceremony? I’ll drink to that. And never stop drinking

3:06 – She plays videogames! Just like you! You have so much in common. You are validated. Never change, never grow. Consume

3:38 – Because we didn’t already know this show was talking directly to its audience.

4:08 – What can I possibly say about this show. It is the summation of the self-destructive culture forcing anime into an artistic ghetto. If it were any worse it’d be Ro-kyu-bu

4:59 – “We’re the strongest party with 100x the bonds! You’re one of us too!” This OP is remarkably honest about this show’s intentions. As OPs tend to be

5:20 – Fun fact: No one has ever run like this. Ever.

4:57 – She fidgets as the camera focuses on her thighs, and then moves the meaningless plot forward. What is the point of mocking something that is more porn than story

6:09 – “Wrong! You know where Shares come from, right?” Nope, but I’m fairly sure you’re going to gracefully explain it. I assume the camera will continue to focus on tits as we get through this tedious exposition

6:52 – So all these characters are supposed to represent computer or videogame things, I guess? That sounds like a thematically rich vein

7:16 – “Man, I hate getting lectured.” It’s like the show’s actually using how uninteresting its’ conflicts are to make us empathize with its archetypes

8:05 – “I have no intention of helping an enemy.” Aww, you’ll come around. Your audience’s interest in the fantasy you represent demands it

8:57 – In this world, all your computers are moe archetypes, and all those archetypes have little sisters. Please. Please just let me die

9:10 – So I guess the current conflict is the leader of one of this universe’s actual countries is lonely and wants a friend. Glad to see I wasn’t wrong to not take the worldbuilding seriously in the slightest

9:27 – Wait, the show is actually expecting us to care about the emotional problems of these transparent tropes? What’s the pitch for this show – “it’s like porn, but much more tedious”?

9:55 – Oh look, she’s following in her sister’s tsun footsteps. I don’t know if that’s supposed to be endearing or mockingly self-aware

10:05 – God this show is boring

10:28 – Oh jeez, kuudere gets two imoutos? They’re really going out on a creative limb here

11:31 – Of course ojou’s tits bounce every time she talks

I really don’t understand what makes this watchable. It’s porn + the most obvious, cliche, uninteresting narrative possible. I just…

12:01 – “Teach her how to be a goddess out on a mission.” Oh, thank god, maybe something will actually happen.

12:35 – I guess they didn’t think we understood the point of this outfit.

12:39 – Get it yet?

13:19 – “Sure, I want a great country too, but I’d rather things be fun!” That is correct. Do not attempt to improve your circumstances. Consume. Neptunia understands you. Consume

13:39 – Sure, why not

14:36 – “Rule three: impress people by making a good showing.” What does that even mean? Does that just mean “impress people by impressing people?” Oh, right, I was supposed to just be looking at the tits during that line

15:13 – Haha, they die just like in a videogame! You know, like those ones you play? Consume

16:11 – In a normal show that wants you to actually care, I’d talk about how the lack of any definable stakes here renders the conflict utterly without tension. But of course, that’s not the point here – the point here is to sell sex and CDs and videogames and hopefully a lifestyle that continues to prioritize such things

16:19 – Oh boy, it looks like we’re selling something even more special today

16:24 – And you thought your rape fantasies weren’t welcome here! This writeup might seem a bit hyperbolic, but I have literally never watched anything nearly as bad as this, at least as far as a single episode goes. This is quite easily the worst thing I have ever seen

16:28 – YOU SEE HOW OVERT THIS IS, RIGHT? People, this is WHY MOE IS CONSIDERED CREEPY. Yeah, okay, maybe some of it is about fatherly instincts or whatnot. But this, right here? This is about RAPING MOEBLOBS WITH THE MINDS OF CHILDREN.

I don’t know what to say. If you assign me a show that is everything wrong with anime, I’m gonna say it is everything wrong with anime

16:31 – Welp, I guess someone’s into it

16:47 – The face of terror

17:08 – I rest my case

18:13 – Oh jeez, I hope tsundere doesn’t get in over her head, forcing her to be rescued by the power of friendship or anything!

I just… it’s a show filled with stories and characters designed for children, but they’re all also portrayed as sex objects and molested by monsters. I hope these animators are proud of their work

18:59 – And there’s step one…

19:08 – …and step two. Again, I guess that’s not what I’m supposed to be paying attention to. But also again, in that case, why bother with this silly charade? Re: so much porn

20:05 – Little girls who transform into women when they’re in trouble. I wonder what fantasy that’s playing to… hm…

20:57 – Aww, don’t you love it? Because our market data indicates you should love it. Consume

21:01 – That’s right, guys. Because when you get past all the gross exploitation and simplistic plotting and one-note characters and inane concepts, we’re all really here for the half-baked, openly demeaning moral center

21:42 – And the camera pans to a mysterious glowing artifact. Could this be the key to some greater conflict? Are dark forces brewing in the dark darkness? TUNE IN NEXT TIME TO-

22:07 – Oh look, it’s Team Rocket. So I guess they’re just openly admitting this story is as mature as Pokemon, except designed for people who want to fuck the characters

22:54 – “Woopsie, I forwarded the rape pictures to the entire country! The comments are all pretty positive, though.” Of course they are! Here in videogame viewer fantasyland, everyone understands that rape fantasies just mean you love those characters even more!

And Done

Holy shit done. Am I EVER done. I don’t think I have ever been more done with anything in my life. Time to go wash my hands. And then take a shower. And then shear off every finger that touched the keyboard attached to the computer which harbored these tainted, cursed files. I mean, I knew anime got bad, but this is… this is so bad. Dear god. I can’t even… what could possibly compel someone to…

I’m gonna go lie down

Feminism and Free!

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Management: I’m a bit more heated here than my usual tone, but it’s an actually important topic, so I figured I should still post it. This was a straight-up argument, so I haven’t changed a word on either side to make sure no-one is misrepresented. It came about in response to my first Free! post, which apparently ruffled some feathers.

Question (sort of):

You didn’t need to tell us what a good little feminist you are (and oh so concerned with shitting on anything that might be remotely aimed at men) 27 times in one post.

Bobduh:

Shit, you got me! I only pretend to be a decent person to look cool on the internet.

Question:

For one thing, forcing yourself against your will to hate something that’s nothing but love and kindness (K-On!) because of some political ideology does not make you a good person – quite the opposite.

But even if we grant that your brand of feminism is what’s good, you’re still obnoxious in how often and aggressively you signal your adherence to it, just as it’s obnoxious when a religious person (who is also a “good person” by their standards) talks constantly about how much they pray and go to church.

Bobduh:

Forcing yourself against your will to hate K-On because of some political ideology

There is no part of this statement that I do not take issue with! First, there is no “force” involved here – my will, personality, and conscience mind are all in agreement that there is something deeply problematic about the archetypes displayed in shows like K-On, Clannad, Sakurasou, and any other number of shows where a female character’s infantilizing helplessness is supposed to be perceived as attractive. I am not going against any natural tendency here – every fiber of my body finds this stuff pretty disturbing, and I actually have repeatedly gotten in arguments on this board, and often just avoided other conversations entirely, because of it. You seem to think I’m just pretending to believe the things I say – I assure you, I’m not trying nearly that hard.

But this doesn’t address K-On itself, which I don’t actually hate – I honestly do believe the creators of that show were intent on making a lighthearted healing-type show, which is apparently what you got out of it. I did not intend to belittle your experience with the show, or their intent – what I take issue with is the specific style of characterization used, which is very prominent in many other less-defensible shows with overt romantic characteristics. I find those helpless  character  archetypes  indicative of an incredibly sexist and dehumanizing style of pandering. My problem is not specifically with K-On – I merely used it as an example because it’s also a KyoAni show and it bears a large number of humorous parallels to Free!, which is why I was referring to Haru as Mio throughout, etc.

Obnoxious in how often and aggressively I signal my adherence to it

I’m sorry my brand of humanism is so offensive to you! My first suggestion would be to possibly not read my posts, since they are all an extension of my beliefs and thus all likely contain the capacity to offend you, but I’d also like to add a little context here. First, and I’ve covered this earlier, but it bears repeating: I’m not filtering my voice through some outside agenda here. I’m cataloging my honest reactions, adding a little humor, and trying to show people my context on media. My first goal in writing these things is to better process my own thoughts, and become a more intelligent consumer of media (thus the questions of sexism and objectification will necessarily crop up here, since they’re such a big question when it comes to this show, and are obviously on my mind) – but in a roundabout way, you’re also right. My second goal is to impart something. Normally that thing is either my way of analyzing stories or my thoughts on media evaluation or my belief that humility and curiosity are the only ways to have a meaningful relationship with art. But my general worldview is also inescapably a part of that.

I’m not a religious person, but I can understand why a religious person would try and tell you how valuable their religion is, if they care about you – according to a great many faiths, if you’re not an adherent, you are eternally damned. That sucks! Why wouldn’t a religious person want to spare people they care about from that? And personally, as a non-religious person who instead believes that data is a real thing and prejudice exists and our world is incredibly goddamn far from a place where genders or races or sexualities or whatever can honestly consider themselves equal in society, government, law, or media, I think that downplaying this stuff, particularly in a setting where people actually read what I have to say, would be pretty inexcusable. I’m not hammering on my “agenda” here, but if my thoughts make anyone think that maybe continuously treating female characters like objects is a shitty thing to do, then I’d also be pretty fucking proud of that. If you find that obnoxious, whatever, read something else – but you can’t tell me it’s not sincere.

But seriously, I’m not actually trying with that – if I were trying, I could be doing much more directly relevant stuff than criticizing anime. This show is pretty dumb on a straight textual level, and so I find that outside of just making jokes, the most interesting angle to analyze it from is its relation to the pervasive sexism in the anime industry. When relevant cultural stuff crops up in other shows, I’ll certainly mention it, but this happens to be a show where that angle is likely the best one for encouraging meaningful discussion. I did not once think while watching this, “now would be a good time to propagate my subversive feminist agenda” – things just came up in my mind and so I wrote them down because I thought someone else might find them interesting. If that doesn’t work for you – well, sorry, no refunds.

Question:

First part: Apologies for being unnecessarily rude earlier – I did find your initial post a bit condescending. Although I can see where you’re coming from about helpless women, I don’t think this is an entirely fair portrayal of K-On! The girls in that show may be goofy and a bit childish in their personal interactions, but they’re also proactive and successful at their goals. They aren’t genuinely helpless and they don’t sit around waiting for men (or anyone else) to save them.

Second part: I think there’s a danger in jumping in too whole-heartedly into any political belief given the high possibility of those beliefs being at least least partially in error. Taking abstract beliefs completely seriously is powerful but dangerous, and can drive things like terrorism just as much as it can drive positive change (not that I think you’re going to bomb anyone). I did think it was a bit weak when you were about to criticize Free! for possibly being sexist against men and then cringed back because you were apparently terrified of being labelled an MRA neckbeard – I think it’s better to own your thoughts instead of fearing “thoughtcrime”.

For what it’s worth I have no comment on Free! itself – I don’t intend to watch it but anyone who does enjoy it is welcome to. I did think it was a bit lame that some people claimed to be watching it in an attempt to stick it to /a/ somehow – just watch what you want to watch and don’t worry about what some anon said about it.

Anyway, thanks for being reasonable when I started out being a bit snarky.

Bobduh:

Abstract beliefs

The thing is, the only real “beliefs” I’m proposing here are that all people deserve equal treatment, that various societal and systemic forces trend towards sexism, and that this extends to media as well. And none of those “beliefs” are really debatable – there’s endless academic evidence for it, and even a cursory examination of anime at large reveals the general tendency to objectify and infantilize female characters. I agree that unsupported beliefs are dangerous, but I think what you’re proposing here is equally dangerous – the idea that all viewpoints are created equal. They aren’t – there’s only one reality, and when all the evidence supports the idea that women are not given fair representation in media, the viewpoint in support of changing that becomes kinda self-evident.

Terrified at being labeled an MRA neckbeard

I was actually just making a joke there, and am not particularly worried about being labeled an MRA or whatever. I don’t deny that men can also be objectified in media (I mean, look at this show), but I think the relative objectification/agency ratio is so skewed towards male fantasies that raising a show like this as a counterpoint to sexism at large is pretty laughable. That was pretty much what I was trying to say with my joke: that Free!’s existence as a show that objectifies men does not excuse an entire culture of sexism in the other direction, farcically playing off the general tendency to use single isolated examples in order to “prove feminism wrong.”

Thanks for the apology, by the way. I try to stay as reasonable as possible, since we can’t really learn anything from each other if we’re just throwing barbs.

 

Brief Aside – The Point of School Days

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Question:

What’s up with School Days?

Bobduh:

It’s an uncomfortably scathing and cynical commentary on the nature of most harems and dating sims. Not a fun ride, but a pretty necessary one.

Most harems exist as sexist power fantasies, relying on the relative inoffensiveness, blandness, or obliviousness of the protagonist, as well as generally a lot of not-taking-themselves-that-seriously, to (theoretically) avoid coming off as creepy and narcissistic. School Days doesn’t do that – School Days plays it straight. It takes a callow, nebbish male protagonist with a weak moral center, and surrounds him with girls with such significant personal issues and such weak self-image that his realizing he can have sex with people just by wanting it and pursuing it makes it actually happen. It’s a relentlessly negative show, but that’s the point – it’s saying that harems are pretty ugly things, and that the circumstances of a harem require a lot of shitty behavior on the part of the guy and a lot of psychological dependency on the part of the girls. By mapping the escapism of harems to characters with actual issues, it acts as a scathing critique of the idea of “winning” girls.

That said, the writing is suspect, the pacing is sluggish in ways that don’t support the material, and the show never actually grapples with its themes, it just exists as a representation of them. The points it makes are a lot more interesting than the package they’re wrapped in.

Thoughts on Art Appreciation, Anime Culture, and the State of the Medium

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Question:

How do you think anime and manga have affected your view of Japan and its culture/people?

Bobduh:

It hasn’t really influenced my perspective on Japanese culture, because most anime don’t try to be realistic, the ones that do tend to paint Japan as a nation of people just like any other (with some cultural quirks, obviously), and anime is generally not created to cater to the sensibilities of the “average Japanese person,” if such a thing can described of any person of any nationality (it can’t).

What it has done is give me a pretty solidly negative impression of the relevant, anime-watching market. But again, that’s still not a monolithic group.

Question:

Can you you elaborate on your negative impression of the anime market? I’m curious because I always see you give pretty insightful analyses of anime in general.

Management: I promise, I would have rephrased this question to be more neutral if my own response didn’t actually address the choice of words – and I think the tone of my response is kind of critical to keeping these discussions civil, so I’m leaving it as it was originally written

Bobduh:

That’s a dangerous question, but you also flattered me, and that’s well established to be my only weakness.

Let me preface this by saying that these are all my opinions, and most of what I’m talking about are things that are frustrating for me specifically as a consumer of media who would like to see more media that appeals to my interests. They are not value judgments on anyone outside of myself, and obviously people like media for different reasons, and that’s totally fine. People find their bliss in all sorts of ways; that’s totally cool. And I’m being reductive here as well, and I admit that, and I understand people are complicated organisms. And in addition to that, I don’t personally live in Japan, so everything I’ll be talking about will be inference based on the media I’ve seen, the ways I’ve seen audiences interact with that media, and the news surrounding fandom that has reached my distant, obviously not-fully-informed ears. One more time: these are all just my opinions, based on what appeals and matters to me. Alrighty.

Well, first there are the issues that could be leveled at the general audience of virtually any medium: the audience places a heavy premium on works that don’t really challenge them, they highly value familiarity and specific, sometimes problematic, sometimes just storytelling-averse tropes, they judge shows based on a variety of surface details as opposed to their underlying quality and nature, they judge all shows within similar frameworks of their own media desires, and will condemn or simply not engage with shows that have goals and ideas outside of their specific avenues of appreciation…

But as I said, that’s pretty much every medium. Anime seems to combine this with a few distinct and in my opinion negative additions: a pervasive acceptance of and even desire for sexist works, a particularly virulent desire for catering to their specific media and cultural preferences (Sakurasou getting attacked for containing a Korean meal, of all things), a predilection for “untroubled worlds” that don’t reflect any aspect of real experience and are generally storytelling and meaning-averse, a strange conflation of their media preferences and actually real-world identity and opinions (which is fine in moderation, but that’s not what I’m referring to here – and when you combine this with that fetishizing of “untroubled worlds” that don’t reflect reality you get things like the Aya Hirano slut-shaming scandal or the general idea of “idol purity” as something to be valued), and a related near-idolizing of various elements of their media (Love Plus vacation experiences, etc). Basically it seems like a portion of the audience’s attitudes and the industry’s need to cater to those attitudes to survive creates some kind of media obsession feedback loop that strikes me as socially limiting and also predisposed to result in awkward, artistically uninteresting media (which brings us back around to this being a problem primarily because I’m mad not enough people like what I like to dictate the majority of what gets produced, not because people don’t have the right to be who they are and like what they like, which they obviously do).

Question: 

It seems like you’re implying that anime will only continue on a downward spiral due to continuous re-enforcement of what you view as negative tropes (although I say “what you view as,” I’m pretty sure 90% would also regard those same tropes as negative). Think there’s any realistic way the current models can change?

Bobduh:

I honestly don’t think the situation is quite as dire as my post possibly implies – in fact, although many shows do seem to reflect the things I bring up, I’d say we’re actually entering/living within a period of relative artistic vitality.

Many people complain of desiring a return to anime’s “good old days” of the late 90s/early 00’s – perhaps there is something to this, but I personally I think this is partly nostalgia infusing old shows with merit they didn’t actually possess, partly a compression of the greatest hits of a ten year period and disregarding of the actual “average show” of that period, and partly a fact that the mainstream entertainment back then just catered to a different audience – the action and adventure shows that came across as more popular then weren’t necessarily “better” than the current trends (less psychologically questionable might be a decent argument, though), they were just different trends that appealed to different people.

It seems to me that, although the anime-culture trends I’ve referred to aren’t really positive ones, there’s actually a greater variety of solid works coming out these days, and certain studios are taking creative risks, whether they end up being rewarded or not. And there’s a whole gallery of talented and creative writers and directors who are being given a great amount of artistic free reign in spite of any ostensible market trends. The market also seems to be growing – charts like this one seem to imply more people are buying anime in Japan in general, which can only be good for the diversity of productions. And though obviously some people could happily watch shows catering towards the market I was describing forever, I think the law of diminishing returns applies here, and most of the audience will move on towards the next big thing soon enough. Regardless, it seems like there’s still room for shows to make at least reasonable profits without bowing to any perceived fandom needs.

Most things in most mediums will not be that artistically profound or interesting, and I don’t think anime’s entering any kind of death spiral in that regard. I just think some mainstream views within anime culture/fandom are pretty problematic in a very specific way, and that appeals to those attitudes tend to be reflected in too many works.